Adhesion problems with ABS on stock SV06 ACE textured PEI bed

Sovol SV06 ACE
1

I (for various reasons) have to print medium to larger sized parts in ABS (Creality CR-ABS). Whatever I have tried doesn’t help to keep the parts on the textured PEI-bed. It’s like I would try to print into a Teflon coated frying pan. The printer is sitting inside an enclosure. Temperature inside of the enclosure 41°C (from print start to end). As most of the parts are mechanical parts I need some rather extreme adhesion to the bed during printing. Diluted PVA-glue helps but is a mess to clean up.

Bed: stock textured PEI-bed
Bed temp: 100°C (even tried to raise this to 110°C to no avail…)
Max. Printing speed: 50mm/s
Cooling Fan turned off

Shouldn’t ABS stick on hot PEI like dirt without any adhesives?

If someone here successfully is using the SV06 ACE for ABS without adhesives on the plain stock PEI board, pls give me a hint.

TIA
L

2

Hello,
You can use 3Dlac, which is easy to clean.
You can also modify your model to add elephant feet to each corner.

3

While modifying the model would usually be impossible for the type of models I need to print, it could be for the one or the other…

What are “elephant feet” (in conjunction with 3D printing… I actually do know how an elephant and it’s feet look like :wink:)? I only know this as a printing fault but not as a feature?

best,
L

4

I think he meant Tabs for the corners.

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5

Let your slicer add them for you

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6

Oh, many thanks! Albeit always printing ABS with a brim, I must have overlooked this… :slight_smile: I’ll give it a try.

Other than that I might think to have gotten a “sub-par” PEI Sheet. Even PLA doesn’t stick really that well.

7

Ya, I used glue stick for the first couple of prints. I had to scrub that plate harder then usual until it worked.

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8

It’s very funny that different countries have different names for it.
Where I come from, we say “elephant’s foot,” while you say “mouse’s ear.”

9

I will try this. Maybe there is some leftover film (“residue”) on top of the PEI sheet.

On the other hand side:

I accidentally discovered that when set to a bed temperature of 110°C (via dashboard) a drop of distilled water does not start to boil on the PEI-board surface but only evaporates.

I clearly would have expected to see it boiling. At least to some degree. So, I took a contact precision thermal probe and measured the surface temperature of the PEI sheet versus the target temperature set. The difference is huge I’d say…

When set to 110°C the PEI surface only reaches slightly above 95°C. :face_without_mouth: I suspect this to be a (near) linear error (have to check this, though). If so, are there any settings where this could be calibrated?

10

By the way, 3dlac is much easier to clean than glue sticks.
It’s like hairspray.

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11

The thermistor is on the other side of the plate right next to the heater. A 15 °C delta to the other side which is loosing heat to room air is not surprising.

Put a blanket over the top and wait a couple minutes.

12

I did exactly that for the measurement. And I let it settle for 30 minutes. So…

BTW: I know that this is not a “sensor-fault” or something. It’s just normal for such a construction. The only thing, which puzzles me: What we need to make material stick on PEI is the correct surface temp. And so I would have expected a correction-factor for it. Which seemingly is not the case.

I know that you only could compensate for this effect for a single environmental temperature (say 20°C) if you’re not about changing the position of the sensor. But I really would have expected exactly that as it’s just “state-of-the-art” for several decades, now (just thinking of my soldering heat-plate which is spot on temperature in between 40°C and 320°C using a very thick aluminium plate).

13

First off

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You are operating outside the specified capabilities of the printer.

No ever claimed the reading was at the top surface. Klipper uses a generic thermistor curve and displays the temperature of THE THERMISTOR wherever it is located.

A correction factor would only be accurate for one ambient air temperature, both above and below the plate AND the air velocity AND direction BOTH above AND below the plate.

You can assign an offset in printer.cfg
You can replace the generic thermistor curve in printer.cfg with “my_thermistor” and enter 2 (or more) volts - temperature pairs.
You can bond a thermistor to the top surface of your build plate, wire it to the mainboard.
You can bond a platinum RTD (PT1000) to the top surface of your build plate and change printer.cfg to match

14

Well, as the only meaningful place for that temperature is the top surface, it’s completely bogus to discuss if maybe another position was meant.

L

15

Did you miss the part about a how an accurate correction factor is impossible?

It’s completely bogus for you to expect the printer to think for you.

16

No, but probably you, Madame or Sir, missed, that I already knew this, before? So, this was nothing new?

And, BTW, I did such compensations before. Even in my business life. There is a very common misunderstanding/misconception laying in the term “accurate”. Usually it’s not required to be 100% accurate. Usually it’s not even required to be extremely close to “accurate”…

A deviation of +/-3 to +/-5 degrees (due all the things you mentioned and even some more…) in between target temperature and real temperature compared to -15°C to -20°C usually can easily be tolerated. Don’t you think so?

Well, yes… I don’t expect the printer to think for me… I just expect it to do what I tell it to…

And now, it does. Deviation after calibration is abt. -5/+1°C(*), now, of course still depending on environmental temperature, which is absolutely (“accurate enough”) fine for me.

L

PS: I cannot yet tell, if this will improve ABS bed adhesion on the PEI-board. First print after calib looks good so far… Time will tell… :man_shrugging:

*) intentionally kept imbalanced on the low side